tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post6716807060332551084..comments2024-01-02T09:45:52.570-05:00Comments on Lost in Transcription Has Moved!!: I owe Martin Nowak an apologyAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04284995441818864226noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-80385146412913134532012-02-29T17:35:42.811-05:002012-02-29T17:35:42.811-05:00Anon, "inclusive fitness" and "mult...Anon, "inclusive fitness" and "multilevel selection" seem to be the same theory. Kin selection seems to be a bit different. As W. D. Hamilton once said: "kinship should be considered just one way of getting positive regression on genotype in the recipient".Tim Tylerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623536372084468307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-67018280257561832882011-11-01T07:24:06.921-04:002011-11-01T07:24:06.921-04:00Maybe, just maybe, you owe Martin Nowak an apology...Maybe, just maybe, you owe Martin Nowak an apology because he (and they) were basically correct. It is certainly the case that kin selection and multilevel selection are interconvertable, however, there is much reason to be suspicious of kin selection. Basically it hides population structure with a mathematical conceit and then pretends that it doesn't exist. The net result is that it takes great discipline to use kin selection constructively. A great deal of pain over the evolution of complex traits could have been avoided had we used a multilevel selection perspective rather than a kin selection perspective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-11621318123088854662011-10-18T04:07:07.001-04:002011-10-18T04:07:07.001-04:00Re: Tarnita. I was at the MMEE 2011 conference in ...Re: Tarnita. I was at the MMEE 2011 conference in Groningen where she was an invited speaker, talking about the paper. I am not qualified to address the scientific issues, but the talk itself gave a poor impression. She bashed inclusive fitness theory rather than promoted her alternative, and the whole thing was more of a lecture than a talk, if you know what I mean. She's certainly on board with Nowak&Wilson.vHFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-62458370357592955802011-10-17T18:50:25.025-04:002011-10-17T18:50:25.025-04:00Yes! Almost every big mathematical brain *I* can ...Yes! Almost every big mathematical brain *I* can think off of the top of my head was a signatory to that Nature letter, and most of them are people that I would happily throw into a mathematical cage match with Nowak / Tarnita any day. <br /><br />On a completely unrelated note, I'm off to arrange mathematical cage matches. I'm going to make millions on the pay-per-view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-60783858915837508332011-10-17T13:54:02.867-04:002011-10-17T13:54:02.867-04:00Yes, it will be interesting to see what Wilson has...Yes, it will be interesting to see what Wilson has to say about religion in the new book, as it seems like it would have to address the topic.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04284995441818864226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-23906691379778552852011-10-17T13:46:39.983-04:002011-10-17T13:46:39.983-04:00OK - I was just thinking, humans-evolved-to-be-nic...OK - I was just thinking, humans-evolved-to-be-nice-through-group-selection could be made to fit rather well with a Catholic / Templeton-ian viewpoint.<br /><br />Although in the Atlantic interview it says that Wilson is critical of "organized religion" so maybe not... just a thought.Neuroskeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06647064768789308157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-71894618674911270632011-10-17T10:31:19.526-04:002011-10-17T10:31:19.526-04:00@Neuroskeptic,
Good point. Although my instinct i...@Neuroskeptic,<br /><br />Good point. Although my instinct is to lay that blame at the doorstep of D. S. Wilson. E. O. Wilson wrote a few papers with him a few years back, and he has long held an ideological grudge against kin-selection / inclusive-fitness models.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04284995441818864226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-37244842076141064472011-10-17T10:29:37.067-04:002011-10-17T10:29:37.067-04:00@behavecology, I agree. My sense it that people do...@behavecology, I agree. My sense it that people don't blame her because, well, being on board with your senior collaborators is sort of your job as a postdoc.<br /><br />Also, my guess is that she is responsible for all the math in the appendix, which is just fine. It is the contextualization of that math that is the problem. <br /><br />As for the "I'm right because I'm a mathematician" thing, that is certainly a common phenotype, and it is an argument that people often use to shield themselves from criticism. I read a number of internet comments by people who are defending Nowak et al. by dismissing critics of the paper as innumerate biologists who resent having mathematical rigor brought into the field. The thing that is so infuriating about that is that most of the people who wrote in criticizing the paper are, themselves, mathematical biologists.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04284995441818864226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-77046504266109054612011-10-17T08:24:54.734-04:002011-10-17T08:24:54.734-04:00Hmm. This is assuming that Nowak isn't behind ...Hmm. This is assuming that Nowak isn't behind Wilson's new direction in some way...Neuroskeptichttp://neuroskeptic.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8180769075610486242.post-397007904322030402011-10-17T03:58:25.068-04:002011-10-17T03:58:25.068-04:00The figure I was most curious about in this whole ...The figure I was most curious about in this whole kerfuffle was Tarnita, who I know next to nothing about. The quote from her in that Atlantic article was interesting, and certainly *suggests* that she's ... on board? with Nowak and Wilson. She also comes across as thinking that she's right because she's a mathematician (not the first time I've run across *that*), and I hope that that's just an out of context misinterpretation on my part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com